Any chance of adding PAS/PEDELEC capabilities to the VESC Tool/firmware? Maybe could be an option in the setup wizard to do this? Could be useful for the ebikers.
This has been in the software todo list for a while, but I haven't implemented it yet. The reason is that this usually is a legal requirement, and another legal requirement (in Sweden at least) is that the motor has a power below 250 W, which makes most VESC hardware kind of overkill.
Out of curiosity, are there places where a PAS sensor is required, but the allowed power is higher? Also, is it desirable for e.g. convenience to have a PAS sensor instead of a throttle? I can put it on higher priority if there are more good reasons to use a PAS sensor.
It depends on the country or even state at to whether or not power(watts) is the limiting factor. Some places make speed the limiting factor rather than power. The laws are especially different outside the UK or EU. There is a decent summary of laws in various countries and states in the article below.
Being able to adjust power/speed profiles along with pedal assist can be good for travelers taking their ebike from State to State or from Country to Country where laws can change.
For Sweden and all other EU countries Electric bikes should be constructed according to EN15194, which for the Motor means "the maximum continuous rated power shall be measured according to EN 60034-1 when the motor reaches its thermal equilibrium as specified by the manufacturer."
EN15194 though doesn't use the word controller specifically, and mostly doesn't seem to know that it exist, more then as part of the motor.
There are 2 thing to consider though:
1 You are still allowed to build your own E-bike without CE-marking, as long as it is safe in traffic, has a safe electrical installation, use PAS for powering the motor, and the motor or electronics has a continuous effect of 250W, and you are not planning on selling it.
2 Most european countries have some extra regulations which equals small motor driven devices to pedestrians as long as they have the speed of a pedestrian (<5km/h)
Cargo bikes, the bigger, the better.
With that said.
I'm planning on making/remaking/adding to the VESC all the components to make my cargobikes as lawfull as possible.
For the moment being:
For someone wich is just able to use his feets (loosen the arms)......?
derlucas (github bldc app-ev.h ) forked the vesc-tool not bad. the problem is the non-sence of pedal-direction...wich could be very dangerous.
if a hall sensor is used, the duty-cycle gives info about direction.
sadly im not able to figure out how to do...
calibratable should be:
min cycles (magnets passing) before start ( safety)
duty < or > 50% (if magnet disk mounted other direction)
stop after x sec no cycle (safety)
pas together with throttle (throttle till x km\h then only max if pas active),\
pas independent (cadence x transmissionfactor x correcture potentiometer)
speed (wheel diameter x signals)
the ppm for hall-pas-sensor (15kohm between + and signal as pullup)
the adc1 as throttle (duty cycle or current)
tx speed (if gnd = one pulse)
rx limit erpm to x (while gnd active) (for gearshift)
break leavers could just drop down the adc1
hope to find somone who can help me.
ps: in swiss till 25kmh/500w ......... for s-pedelec 45kmh/1000w
Thank you and have a nice time
Hi, I am as well looking for a PAS / Torque sensor support for my ebike which uses a thumb throttle on the vesc at the minute.
In termes of law, it is said that the power limit is 250w but it is rarely respected by the manufacturer (bosh /shimano), the bike is electronically blocked to never exceed the 25km/h but still get torque, then it must be geared by PAS sensor.
I would love to use a such sensor on my 1000w ebike.
I would love to have PAS / Torque sensor on my e-bike. I built a mountain bike with VESC and 6374 motor and it is perfect for off roading. No problems with state laws as long as I ride boondocks.
The US and California laws in particular are pretty generous for the amount of power you can have on your ebike and not require registration, insurance, etc: 750watts. The power output, however, is mentioned only in the federal regulations and that's almost unenforceable on this premise because local authorities follow the letter of state, municipal, county laws that are traditionally stricter than the federal ones. However, CA state law uses the speed as the main reference point, so if you don't do silly things like going 40mph on a sidewalk or a bike trail, you should be fine. You would need to have 20mph limit though to be legal on trails. If you go up to 28mph, you would need to be at least 16 years old and wear helmet. Can use the bike anywhere except bike trails. Some local parks, however, specifically prohibit ebikes, skateboards, etc. That's usually those parks that run at the county level. State parks are more open. The law also explicitly prohibits modifying ebikes for high speed which would not make a lot of sense when you put it together yourself. But if you really want to go fast, pedaling or not, it's not too hard to register it. That would be a licensed vehicle from that point, however, which means no access to places that you would normally have on a non-registered compliant bike.
So, anyhow, a PAS would be good in most parts of the US.
@Schagg, I did try derlucas build, however, could not make it work, I don't think it is fully functional...
YES ..... please add PAS capability! DIY builders worldwide would order the Vesc with PAS for ebikes.
I would also be very interested in an Ebike app with PAS support for the VESC!
You mentioned that the 250W power limit in EU countries might possibly make the VESC excessive but I think the VESC would be perfect for ebike usage if the firmware was to support it natively.
The 250W limit defined in EU directive EN15194 only limits continuous rated motor power. The wording of the directive does not specify a limit for peak power and because of this many factory fitted systems from Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano regularly have peak power outputs of ~800W making the VESC a very desirable option for an Ebike. The directive is far more concerned with the 25kph speed limit and that assistance is only provided when pedalling.
The VESC6 appears to also have enough inputs to support all the regular ebike accessories, throttle, brake, pas, torque sensor and a serial display connection.
Please let me know if you would be interested in developing pas support it as I would be very interested in beta testing it.
for the time being, we must confine ourselves with an intermediate pathway. One possible route is
PAS -> arduino -> PPM -> vesc, example rc filter and arduino code here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87116
Once we run an additional mcu (arduino) next to the esc, this opens the question which other functionality could move from there. In the end, cheap RC escs become possible to use with other sensors for voltage and current attached to the arduino and many of the vesc niceties moved there. All this was not neccessary to debate over if we only had PAS functionality in the VESC firmware. Maybe ater all VESC is not an ideal choice for ebikes/pedelecs?
dancing with bikes
Regarding the Arduino route, there is actually already a very good solution that goes: PAS -> Arduino <-> Serial <-> VESC
It uses a fork of the well documented ForumsController code running on a Teensy 3.2 which gives similar functionality to the CA but in a much smaller package, see here: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/gsm-middrive-with-vesc-and-teensy-forumscontroller-conversion.25787/
The Teensy 3.2 is 3.3v logic, but 5v tolerant and it has enough serial capable pins to also connect to various existing ebike displays. This is the route I will probably take as it does not require any external components you can connect all the digital inputs like brake and pas straight in, but a resistor divider is recommended on the throttle input to reduce the throttle voltage to the 0-3.3v range so that the full throttle range can be resolved.
yes, I know about the ForumsController and the ReducedForumsController.
It is my aim to reduce necessary interactions (get/set) with the drive train to a minimum. PAS is a legal requirement, display should be superfluous, 5 step power selector should suffice.
So long as VESC does not support PAS and Pedelec, an additional controller of some sorts is necessary. Once you go that route, you can do anything the computer (and interfaces) can do.
Any update about native pas support for vesc.
PAS can be done by custom application
any tutorial how to do this?
just google VESC custom application. There you can put any code you want. I havent seen a direct tutorial for PAS.
Dennis Freiburg, before advising, just try to do yourself... we all know it is possible, however, it requires knowledge on this product, average controller enthusiasts like myslef would not cope with the task... I ditched out my Vesc despite being satisfied with it as a controller, for bike it is simply unusable, too many hurdles with additional controller and interconnection...
The only implementation effort I have seen was from derlucas, unfortunately, it is not functional and he is not willing to continue nor to help with his creation, waste of time.
If you're a big nooby in programming and you have no interest in it then Google doesn't help to create custom app or tweak the firmware to add this functionality. I love my vesc and want to keep it but I will soon throw it away if I cannot use pedal assist.
I have a second ebike where I would like to put the vesc, but because I want my torque sensor to work, I am using an un adjustable bad controller from aliexpress.. Please Benjamin add the PAS and Torque sensor reading to the vesc
I am new to the world of programming and esc. I am in a wheelchair and have been researching how to develop a system that would provide assistance for a manual wheelchair.
I do not want to use a throttle but would want to freewheel till x number of forward revolutions then kick in to provide x amount of torque assistance, using a sensored motor. The VESC tool seems perfect with the torque curves and other setting limits but I do not know how to use it without a throttle input.
I would definitely need to create a custom application and I think PAS is kind of what I am looking for.
It would be really helpful to me if there was a tutorial for creating an app or PAS app to modify.
I'm interested to see this added as I would like to replace a Bafang BBS controller with a VESC and retain the PAS feature.
These features seem to be really popular but absolutely no one wants to write them. Odd.
Looks like Marcos implemented PAS support now:
Thanks for letting us know hexacopter, that is a long-awaited feature by e-bike enthusiasts, looking forward to checking it out...
Can you post tutorial how to set up PAS with VESC?
Maybe YouTube video?
How to connect a PAS sensor to the controller, where can I find a diagram?
What I have found is that you need to have a quadrature sensor (2 signals slightly offset), and connect them to the pins: RX, TX, GND, 5V. Be careful not to create a short, as this may ruin your vesc.
PAS mode works, however ADC and PAS seem to not work for me, the ADC input always overwrite the PAS.
Unfortunately even though there is significant interest in using VESC in an ebike this function is still hardly implemented. The new LISP programming option in principle helps to make a custom code easier, however it is still very hard for someone who is not a programmer.
I tried this quadrature 24p PAS but cannot get it to work:
I have the Flipsky 75100(https://flipsky.net/collections/electronic-products/products/flipsky-751...)
and connected the PAS to RX, TX, 5v and GND on the comm port and tried both PAS mode and ADC and PAS but nothing happens when pedaling. I am running the standfard 5.3 firmware.
I got it to work by changing pas control type to cadence. I had it set to constant torque. After tweeking some parameters like rpm start and stop the bike runs very smooth.
My bike runs a 1000w hubmotor and pas is my only throttle input. I use ADC and PAS where ADC2 is used for regen brakes which works nice
Do you have PAS assist levels? How do you switch between them? Do you have a display? I want to use PAS on my 1500W hubmotor.
Ebike 1500W hub motor
Battery 52V 17,5AH Samsung 18650 36E 3500mAH 14S5P 40A BMS
In vesc tool you can make profiles and easily switch between them with the app. However PAS levels are not a configurable option in profiles
Hi, I've also been trying to get this to work but as a torque sensor. Are you just running cadence sensor or do u also have throttle? Are u able to hook sensor up to UART? are u changing assist levels when u get back home? Bluetooth module? Is it possible to have pas, throttle and Bluetooth module on a single 75100? Sorry for the 21 qestions, I'm a vesc noob. I didn't even know of its existence till days ago. Thanks in advance for the help
I am just running the pas as a cadence sensor(could not get it to work as torque), no throttle as it is illegal in Norway to have throttle on ebikes. The sensor is connected to the comm port on 75100. I have set assist level to 100% and limited the power output to 250W as that is maximum legal power here. I have a bluetooth module connected to the UART port
Ah ok. So you also have a torque sensor as well as this cadence sensor? https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-sensors/pas-24p.html
When you put it to the torque sensing under pas settings it wouldn't work? and you had to settle for cadence only? how many wires did you connect to the comm port? which pins did you connect on comm port? I also want bluetooth on uart port and throttle on comms but first I just want to get torque sensing working on its own. I was hoping they had it figured out for vesc as it is common enough to have torque sensing on a hub motor, grin technology can support torque sensing on their controllers. I know I'm bombarding you with questions, because I'm a still a vesc noob trying to figure this stuff out. Thanks again for the info jon
No I only have the mentoined sensor configured as a cadence sensor. I could not get it to work as a torque sensor. I would say it works pretty decent anyway. especially since my motor only outputs 250W
I cut off the connector on the PAS and used a JST connector to connect the two sensor wires to rx/tx on the 75100 comm port. I use ADC2 as re-gen brake and have ADC1 available if I want a throttle(unlikely)