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30kw 34s 144v: WiFi, BLE, iOS support, GPS/LTE Options

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Johnny Danger
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Great! PM Sent, hope to get one soon! wink

Menyhart Laszlo
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PM Sent

 

willo
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I'm interested. PM on the way.

vadicus
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The connector design is changed to allow for easy connect/disconnect. Much progress is made with the phone application development, including online logging directly from the phone app. 

Connectivity package (GPS+GSM/LTE) with 3 years of service in 70 countries is now available as an option on new controllers.

See updates and pictures here on the first page of this tread: https://vesc-project.com/node/1477

 

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

jacopo
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Here's Jacopo, senior software engineer from Italy. We're working on a new electric dirt bike (30s, high amp) and have been following this thread for a long time. Just PM you ;)

bilkenter
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I am Burak from Turkey. I am Electrical and Electronics engineer. We develop electric motorcycle and would like to work with high voltage controller. I would like to give a try this such an amazing product. I just send PM.

Miazgus
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Jestem zainteresowany wykorzystaniem tego sterownika do samochodu solarnego. Daj mi znać, jeśli coś jest dostępne!

Gatze
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Are there any update's ? Looking for a high power vesc.

vadicus
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Looking for testers that are properly set up to test the controller design up 30kw. Ideally, at voltages up to 134v and currents up to 400A.

I can only load it up to 10kw with my current setup and I'd like to validate higher power levels.

You'd need have the right battery, motor and the way to load it, as well as experience setting up hardware running vesc firmware. 

PM me if you have the proper setup, knowledge, and motivation to run the tests and provide me feedback.

Due to component supply constraints, I can only produce a limited number of units, therefore, I am looking for experienced testers only to validate the design.

 

 

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

zselgrath
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PM sent, very excited by the prospect of testing this hardware. Provided a good chunk of context. I'm a mechanical engineer located in Atlanta, GA.

vadicus
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I have a couple of controllers in stock available for immediate shipping. PM for details.

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

Pafnucytv
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Hi, i wrote PM

vadicus
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Seems like no trouble running an axial flux motor. Here is some test:

 

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

vadicus
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Considering offering 100v and 200v version of the controller (in addition to the 150v). The 100v version should be capable of 500A phase, and the 200V obviously higher voltage and likely up to 300A.

Any interest? Would like to hear some thoughts.

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

KirkusMaximus
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I'd bite depending on the price.  I'd like to hear how it compares to the Tronic 750 which is not cheap at $900 but has these specs:

  • 550 Phase amps continuous
  • 650 Phase amps absolute
  • 350+ Battery amps
  • 8S - 30S Battery (24V to 126V)
vadicus
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My simple smoke test for any controller (without actually smoking it) is to check the claimed specs against the specs of the parts used inside and how that controller is made. The test is oversimplified but it provides a basic idea of how far the claimed specs are from the reality.

Let's say a controller is using 24x IRFP4321 or four per phase which is what's likely would be used on a controller with To-247 packaged 150v rated mosfets.

https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/irfp4321pbf.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a4015...

The datasheet (that tends to be always over optimistic) tells us that the continued drain per mosfet at 25C is 78A. So, 78 x 4 = 312A. That means provided the mosfets temperature can be maintained at 25C (impossible with passive cooling and in standard ambient temperature), the mosfets would be good for up 312A load of DC/non-switched load under perfect conditions. Switching adds another layer of losses warranting additional current derating bringing it to 250A at best. It doesn't mean you can't push it for a couple of seconds a few times and then wait until the temperature goes down but this is far from continuous and well above the safe specs for the mosfets (aka compromised reliability).

 

 

 

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

AngryPixyRider
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bump

vadicus
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Yes. Any questions, comments?

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

vadicus
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Just an update:

Onboard contactor/precharge circuits are now available on NextGen controllers. No more sparky and safe battery disconnect is on board.

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

vadicus
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Another update:

IMU is now included on board.

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

tobiokanobi
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@vadicus - do you have 2 on hand, tested and ready for shipment? Thx, tobias

tobiokanobi
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@vadicus - do you have 2 on hand, tested and ready for shipment? Thx, tobias

NOAI
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Hi Avery body. Im working on prototype of VESC and encounter problem to spin of little motor 1400KV power supply 12V VESC tool from terminal not reporting any errors DT 660ns gate rise 110ns gate fall 56ns GND bouncing after DC-DC 30mV USB detected momentarily FOC detection passing without problem, but not spinning a motor. 

Any suggestions will be appreciated. , and I have a technical questions 1) Min and Max voltage swing on ADC pins for detection (current sensing and BMF voltage sensing)

Schematic attached

  schematic

 

power stage

vadicus
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There is something going on with the current sensing circuits. You need to be able to measure the current in both directions. I recommend you take one of the reference schematics from the Documentation section on this site and replicate without much change. To validate BEMF and current signals, you also want to use check the Sampled data while attempting to spin the motor by hand or with battery power. It may appear the motor passes detection but the values may not be correct. You want to post more relevant details such as your motor detected values.  

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

vadicus
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Yes, controllers are available. 

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

NOAI
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Vadicus, Thanks alot for advise im on it . I looked on your schematic of op-amps in this configuration (i believe its BESC G3) high side sensing and don't have OFFSET 2V . How do you overcome OFFSET problem, its something in firmware? can you share it for know "how to". Previous design was used with LOW SIDE sensing , It is problematic,  or have serious disadvantages ???

 

NOAI
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About scop screenshot if you are concern on negative dip it cause by 2 tings 1) Capacitor ore capacitance on BOOTSTRAP (capacitor charging by negative voltage spike on the switching note)   2) transmission line have high inductance (make copper pour from mos-fet gate to driver ic) It is the same as dc-dc converters if no wide pour after switching note it will have bouncing in power bas and gnd.

NOAI
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screenshots 

1 Current sensing

current sensing

2 BEMF

bemf

3 L side rise

lsr

4 L side  fall

Lo side fall

5 H side rise

hsr

6 H side fall

hsf

7 VESC TOOL FOC detected without spinning a motor

foc detected

8 OFFSET voltage in tool

offset

 

NOAI
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PS1 to mos-fet H side 12V 1A5 

PS2 to logic and gate drivers 12V 1A

PS1 and PS2 are totally independent 

Right now for testing and tuning custom gate drivers (forward gate 10 R and return 10 R) not 2186,. from screenshot can see forward 10 R need to cut in half at lest 4R7

at BEMF can't say anything need of explanation @ situation

Current wave form.... I think should not be like that.

Help appreciated.

NOAI
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In the current screenshot it looks like it is staging  or it ok to be like that 

can any one to post current sensing screenshot from working ESC

Rise and fall time on BEMF to slow it is defiantly. Im on it.

Thanks in advance.

NOAI
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Update on BEMF sensing remover 2n2 caps on mcu pins (no filtering) and motor standin steal., not rotating

emf sensing

 

vadicus
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Your detected FOC values are clearly not valid. The resistance, inductance, and flux values in thousand range are not real. Definitely an issue with current sensing at the very least but likely other problems with the design. Are you able to spin the motor in open loop?

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

NOAI
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Thanks man , motor real properties is 0.5R and 0.003mH. Motor not springing make humming noyce only.

NOAI
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Hi. Happy New Year.!!!!

FAULT_CODE_UNBALANCED_CURRENTS

From screenshots Phase 3 Current plot showing large spikes my guess its high frequency nose on output from OP-AMP 

 

 

 

 

 

How to suppress them any suggestion please. 

Or Im mistaken?

Thanks in advance.

vadicus
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Unbalanced currents normally mean your current sensor readings from three phases in idle are not somewhat the same or close. Per your screenshot, it seems like your phase 2 and 3 are swinging in the range of +/- 0.125A. I assume it's at idle (no PWM signals on phases) or no? And phase 1 is sitting at about 0.05A or so and doesn't move much. At idle, all phase currents should be somewhere close to zero, a slight differences are ok. when you apply PWM signal, all three phase current should be swinging around zero. If your screenshots show a running motor, then your phase 1/green is not working. I can't tell from your screenshots if they are at idle or you attempt to spin the motor.  

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

NOAI
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Screen shot in time of fault trigered, from drv8301 green and orange , but yellow from ap-amp the nosy one, it is not pasing FOC setings, as you saing green not in proper alayment to relative to orange and yellow, and the end driver start constantly give error code felier of hardware . Botom line 2 driver dead and motor not spining, my conclugion is driver not relible at all.
Thanks for responds.

vadicus
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Lots of things that can go wrong. One thing is that a three phase driver on one chip is hard to route in a symmetrical way, and that's what you want to achieve for proper operation of three phases. However, it's probably not the driver that's bad, it's how it's used in the current design. Drivers will normally fry if there is a problem with how they are powered and/or connected to the mosfet gates. The green phase not moving means either it's not powered by the driver or it's powered but current is not correctly sensed (or both). 

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

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