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Trampa VESC 100/250 suitable for heavy applications?

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nojjan
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Trampa VESC 100/250 suitable for heavy applications?

I am looking for examples of heavy applications and experience thereof, 2-300kg vehicle, 15-25kW output. A controller such as a VESC 100/250 seems to be capable of great things but I have a hard time finding heavy applications or am I missing something. Please advice or link if you know of any, thanks a bunch.

vadicus
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With some gearing, moving 300kg might be possible but will be slow.   

 

 

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nojjan
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Why slow? or maybe I should ask: what is slow to you?

If the Trampa VESC 100/250 can really channel 100 V x 250 A then it is something close to 25kW. Assuming an 80% average efficiency it is still 20kW effective power. 20kW is more than double what is needed to maintain 100 kph on a motorcycle (200kg vehicle + 100kg rider), which is not very slow, right?

/ Noj

vadicus
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First of all, you won't be able to run it at 100v/250A, this is absolute/theoretical/non-practical internal component maximums that you don't want to run at for any meaningful amount of time. Running 100v rated mosfets and caps at 100v, for example, will most definitely destroy them very quickly. There always needs to be a safety margin for reliable use, so heavy de-rating applies. At 250A continuous, you would need forced cooling to prevent overheating. Ambient temperature will play a big roll in this. At 30C and above, you'll need even more cooling. You'd be lucky to get 10kw without overheating. Now, 300kg is a heavier motorcycle category. You might be able to get up to 100kph on the flat ground with no wind, but the acceleration will be ridiculously slow. You'd need at least 500A to generate enough torque for somewhat good acceleration. Now, you'll need way more power going up hill at 100kph. Check out Zero motorcycles, that can be a good reference for your use case. A 200kg motorcycle has at least 50kw drive train.  

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)

frank
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A 90 km/h motorbike is possible with the VESC 100/250 with optimised air cooling. It exists... some vehicles also have two motors and two 100/250 controllers can make a smaller vehicle pretty dam fast. 

KirkusMaximus
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To Frank's point, I'm building a custom ATV with Polaris suspension and using a 100/250 on each corner connected via CAN.   The stock Polaris Sportsman XP 1000 is 871lbs (~400kg) dry so my approach is using the suspension but building a vastly lighter new frame.   The Polaris has 90hp which works out to 67 kilowatts so if I can get 15kw continuous (75v@200 amps (separate batteries for cooling)) per wheel I'm at 60 kilowatts vs 67 with the gas engine, but this may only weigh 250lbs/113kg vs 871lbs/400kg so the power to weight ratio would be vastly higher (.53 w/kg. vs .17).

My struggle now is figuring out which motors to use and I'm looking at a few options but I'm hesitant to use anything other than the T-motor U15 that Benjamin Vedder got working on his YouTube video, because I don't want to blow up a $500 100/250 testing out motors nobody has configured yet.  The ME1302 looks interesting and has a sine/cosine sensor, but I don't want to detonate my ESCs.

frank
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Electric Kilowatts are also much stronger since you have pretty much full torque at low RPMs, while the combustion engine only produces the peak power at one specific small RPM range.

The 100/250 should drive pretty much any BLDC motor. The drone motors are special, since you need to drive them while the stator is fully saturated. This only works with a lot of air for cooling! So don't try that on a vehicle. The motor would melt from heat if you have no temperature sensor installed. These motors are not rated as high as advertised. It only works because of the massive airflow from the propeller.

50 KW electric on our GoKart is insane! Motor wise I would also look at the following options:

Motenergy ME1616

SIA72V5000WN10421

bb67
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"You might be able to get up to 100kph on the flat ground with no wind, but the acceleration will be ridiculously slow."

Why? Look at the origin of VESC developement, skateboards.
They ride up to 35 mph, with furious acceleration, two 3 kW motors air-cooled, no problems.
With lower profile and drag you could go 100kph with that power.

"You'd need at least 500A to generate enough torque for somewhat good acceleration."

No, sorry, acceleration depends on power and weight, not amps.

"Check out Zero motorcycles, that can be a good reference for your use case. A 200kg motorcycle has at least 50kw drive train."

Zero competes with gasoline -sports- bikes with speeds of ~160 kph on the highway.
This is what drags massive watts.
A 10 kW drivetrain is perfectly fine for a 200 kg vehicle if you don't race.

KirkusMaximus
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"They ride up to 35 mph, with furious acceleration, two 3 kW motors air-cooled, no problems."

The original question was about a Trampa VESC 100/250.  You're referring to "Dual" ESCs which Trampa doesn't make.

Comparing an e-skateboard to a full blown motorcycle isn't really fair as the wind resistance, including rider will be much smaller on an e-skateboard.  Rolling resistance will also be much higher on a 2-300Kg vehicle vs an e-skate.   

"No, sorry, acceleration depends on power and weight, not amps."

Power is amps x volts (aka watts), which can be easily translated to horsepower for instance.  Amps are a good proxy for torque, and if you look at any dyno chart you can see how they're basically just torque graphs with a multiple for HP.  Tomato / potato.

vadicus
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Lol, thanks, KirkusMaximus. Once skateboards and dual controllers came up, I saw no point to say anything further.

 

 

NextGen FOC High voltage 144v/34s, 30kw (https://vesc-project.com/node/1477)