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Problem with tiny inrunner motor

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Maxid
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Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14
Posts: 6
Problem with tiny inrunner motor

Hi all,

I recently bought a HD60 VESC from Trampa to use in a robotics project.
I need to drive a tiny inrunner motor (preferably in FOC mode as I want it to be as silent as possible) at speeds of ~40.000 rpm.
Motor detection seems to work via the wizard but as soon as I want to use it via the rpm or duty cycle commands I can not get it to turn reliably from standstill to full speed.
There is a band of rpms where it seems to work fine but above and below I only get weird back and forth vibrations.

I am new to motor settings and would really appreciate someone giving me hints on what parameters to tweak.

PS: The used motor is a novomotec EC1656

Maxid
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Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14
Posts: 6

Ok - well seems like I was wrong and the VESC is not capable of running such small motors reliably.
Bummer!

Maxid
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Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14
Posts: 6

I now tested the same motor on the VESC:
VESC_90Duty_200us.png

and the motor controller I wanted to replace:
New_40k_RPM_200us.png

The VESC seems very choppy - how can I change this behavior?

TechAUmNu
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Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
VESC Free
Joined: 2017-09-22 01:27
Posts: 575

Could you post your motor configuration XML so I can take a look?

I successfully run small motors on my A50S which runs vesc firmware. I was using a TP2040. It does take a bit of tuning to make it work well. http://www.tppowereurope.com/Webwinkel-Product-242402677/TP2040.html

hexakopter
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Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
VESC Original
Joined: 2017-05-24 12:13
Posts: 94

Can you show pictures of the internals of the VESC HD60? I guess it is still using shunt resistors with a very low resistance to measure currents up to 160A. For your application it probably makes sense to change the shunt resistors to measure these low currents < 1A precisely. 

I run a very similar motor to yours (3A max current rating) with 0.01 ohm shunt resistors without a problem.

Maxid
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Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14
Posts: 6

Can't upload the file but here's the xml

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<MCConfiguration>

    <pwm_mode>1</pwm_mode>

    <comm_mode>0</comm_mode>

    <motor_type>2</motor_type>

    <sensor_mode>0</sensor_mode>

    <l_current_max>1.5</l_current_max>

    <l_current_min>-1.5</l_current_min>

    <l_in_current_max>60</l_in_current_max>

    <l_in_current_min>-60</l_in_current_min>

    <l_abs_current_max>14</l_abs_current_max>

    <l_min_erpm>-40000</l_min_erpm>

    <l_max_erpm>40000</l_max_erpm>

    <l_erpm_start>1</l_erpm_start>

    <l_max_erpm_fbrake>300</l_max_erpm_fbrake>

    <l_max_erpm_fbrake_cc>1500</l_max_erpm_fbrake_cc>

    <l_min_vin>8</l_min_vin>

    <l_max_vin>57</l_max_vin>

    <l_battery_cut_start>10.2</l_battery_cut_start>

    <l_battery_cut_end>9</l_battery_cut_end>

    <l_slow_abs_current>1</l_slow_abs_current>

    <l_temp_fet_start>85</l_temp_fet_start>

    <l_temp_fet_end>100</l_temp_fet_end>

    <l_temp_motor_start>85</l_temp_motor_start>

    <l_temp_motor_end>100</l_temp_motor_end>

    <l_temp_accel_dec>0.15</l_temp_accel_dec>

    <l_min_duty>0.005</l_min_duty>

    <l_max_duty>0.95</l_max_duty>

    <l_watt_max>120</l_watt_max>

    <l_watt_min>-120</l_watt_min>

    <l_current_max_scale>1</l_current_max_scale>

    <l_current_min_scale>1</l_current_min_scale>

    <l_duty_start>1</l_duty_start>

    <sl_min_erpm>150</sl_min_erpm>

    <sl_min_erpm_cycle_int_limit>1100</sl_min_erpm_cycle_int_limit>

    <sl_max_fullbreak_current_dir_change>10</sl_max_fullbreak_current_dir_change>

    <sl_cycle_int_limit>62</sl_cycle_int_limit>

    <sl_phase_advance_at_br>0.8</sl_phase_advance_at_br>

    <sl_cycle_int_rpm_br>80000</sl_cycle_int_rpm_br>

    <sl_bemf_coupling_k>600</sl_bemf_coupling_k>

    <hall_table__0>-1</hall_table__0>

    <hall_table__1>1</hall_table__1>

    <hall_table__2>3</hall_table__2>

    <hall_table__3>2</hall_table__3>

    <hall_table__4>5</hall_table__4>

    <hall_table__5>6</hall_table__5>

    <hall_table__6>4</hall_table__6>

    <hall_table__7>-1</hall_table__7>

    <hall_sl_erpm>2000</hall_sl_erpm>

    <foc_current_kp>0.0966</foc_current_kp>

    <foc_current_ki>204.14</foc_current_ki>

    <foc_f_sw>30000</foc_f_sw>

    <foc_dt_us>0.12</foc_dt_us>

    <foc_encoder_inverted>0</foc_encoder_inverted>

    <foc_encoder_offset>180</foc_encoder_offset>

    <foc_encoder_ratio>7</foc_encoder_ratio>

    <foc_encoder_sin_gain>1</foc_encoder_sin_gain>

    <foc_encoder_cos_gain>1</foc_encoder_cos_gain>

    <foc_encoder_sin_offset>1.65</foc_encoder_sin_offset>

    <foc_encoder_cos_offset>1.65</foc_encoder_cos_offset>

    <foc_encoder_sincos_filter_constant>0.5</foc_encoder_sincos_filter_constant>

    <foc_sensor_mode>0</foc_sensor_mode>

    <foc_pll_kp>2000</foc_pll_kp>

    <foc_pll_ki>30000</foc_pll_ki>

    <foc_motor_l>9.659e-05</foc_motor_l>

    <foc_motor_r>0.2041</foc_motor_r>

    <foc_motor_flux_linkage>0.004961</foc_motor_flux_linkage>

    <foc_observer_gain>4.063e+07</foc_observer_gain>

    <foc_observer_gain_slow>0.05</foc_observer_gain_slow>

    <foc_duty_dowmramp_kp>10</foc_duty_dowmramp_kp>

    <foc_duty_dowmramp_ki>200</foc_duty_dowmramp_ki>

    <foc_openloop_rpm>1400</foc_openloop_rpm>

    <foc_sl_openloop_hyst>0.1</foc_sl_openloop_hyst>

    <foc_sl_openloop_time>0.1</foc_sl_openloop_time>

    <foc_sl_d_current_duty>0</foc_sl_d_current_duty>

    <foc_sl_d_current_factor>0</foc_sl_d_current_factor>

    <foc_hall_table__0>255</foc_hall_table__0>

    <foc_hall_table__1>255</foc_hall_table__1>

    <foc_hall_table__2>255</foc_hall_table__2>

    <foc_hall_table__3>255</foc_hall_table__3>

    <foc_hall_table__4>255</foc_hall_table__4>

    <foc_hall_table__5>255</foc_hall_table__5>

    <foc_hall_table__6>255</foc_hall_table__6>

    <foc_hall_table__7>255</foc_hall_table__7>

    <foc_sl_erpm>4000</foc_sl_erpm>

    <foc_sample_v0_v7>1</foc_sample_v0_v7>

    <foc_sample_high_current>0</foc_sample_high_current>

    <foc_sat_comp>0</foc_sat_comp>

    <foc_temp_comp>0</foc_temp_comp>

    <foc_temp_comp_base_temp>25</foc_temp_comp_base_temp>

    <foc_current_filter_const>0.1</foc_current_filter_const>

    <foc_cc_decoupling>2</foc_cc_decoupling>

    <foc_observer_type>0</foc_observer_type>

    <foc_hfi_voltage_start>20</foc_hfi_voltage_start>

    <foc_hfi_voltage_run>4</foc_hfi_voltage_run>

    <foc_hfi_voltage_max>10</foc_hfi_voltage_max>

    <foc_sl_erpm_hfi>2000</foc_sl_erpm_hfi>

    <foc_hfi_start_samples>65</foc_hfi_start_samples>

    <foc_hfi_obs_ovr_sec>0.001</foc_hfi_obs_ovr_sec>

    <foc_hfi_samples>1</foc_hfi_samples>

    <gpd_buffer_notify_left>200</gpd_buffer_notify_left>

    <gpd_buffer_interpol>0</gpd_buffer_interpol>

    <gpd_current_filter_const>0.1</gpd_current_filter_const>

    <gpd_current_kp>0.03</gpd_current_kp>

    <gpd_current_ki>50</gpd_current_ki>

    <s_pid_kp>0.004</s_pid_kp>

    <s_pid_ki>0.004</s_pid_ki>

    <s_pid_kd>0.0001</s_pid_kd>

    <s_pid_kd_filter>0.2</s_pid_kd_filter>

    <s_pid_min_erpm>900</s_pid_min_erpm>

    <s_pid_allow_braking>1</s_pid_allow_braking>

    <p_pid_kp>0.03</p_pid_kp>

    <p_pid_ki>0</p_pid_ki>

    <p_pid_kd>0.0004</p_pid_kd>

    <p_pid_kd_filter>0.2</p_pid_kd_filter>

    <p_pid_ang_div>1</p_pid_ang_div>

    <cc_startup_boost_duty>0.01</cc_startup_boost_duty>

    <cc_min_current>0.05</cc_min_current>

    <cc_gain>0.0046</cc_gain>

    <cc_ramp_step_max>0.04</cc_ramp_step_max>

    <m_fault_stop_time_ms>500</m_fault_stop_time_ms>

    <m_duty_ramp_step>0.02</m_duty_ramp_step>

    <m_current_backoff_gain>0.5</m_current_backoff_gain>

    <m_encoder_counts>8192</m_encoder_counts>

    <m_sensor_port_mode>0</m_sensor_port_mode>

    <m_invert_direction>0</m_invert_direction>

    <m_drv8301_oc_mode>0</m_drv8301_oc_mode>

    <m_drv8301_oc_adj>10</m_drv8301_oc_adj>

    <m_bldc_f_sw_min>3000</m_bldc_f_sw_min>

    <m_bldc_f_sw_max>35000</m_bldc_f_sw_max>

    <m_dc_f_sw>25000</m_dc_f_sw>

    <m_ntc_motor_beta>3380</m_ntc_motor_beta>

    <m_out_aux_mode>0</m_out_aux_mode>

    <m_motor_temp_sens_type>0</m_motor_temp_sens_type>

    <m_ptc_motor_coeff>0.61</m_ptc_motor_coeff>

    <si_motor_poles>2</si_motor_poles>

    <si_gear_ratio>1</si_gear_ratio>

    <si_wheel_diameter>0.02</si_wheel_diameter>

    <si_battery_type>0</si_battery_type>

    <si_battery_cells>3</si_battery_cells>

    <si_battery_ah>6</si_battery_ah>

    <motor_brand>Unnamed</motor_brand>

    <motor_model>Not Specified</motor_model>

    <motor_weight>0</motor_weight>

    <motor_poles>14</motor_poles>

    <motor_sensor_type>0</motor_sensor_type>

    <motor_description>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN&quot; &quot;http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/strict.dtd&quot;&gt;

&lt;html&gt;&lt;head&gt;&lt;meta name=&quot;qrichtext&quot; content=&quot;1&quot; /&gt;&lt;style type=&quot;text/css&quot;&gt;

p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

&lt;/style&gt;&lt;/head&gt;&lt;body style=&quot; font-family:'Roboto'; font-size:12pt; font-weight:400; font-style:normal;&quot;&gt;

&lt;p style=&quot; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;&quot;&gt;A motor description can be edited here.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</motor_description>

    <motor_loss_torque>0.03</motor_loss_torque>

    <motor_quality_bearings>0</motor_quality_bearings>

    <motor_quality_magnets>0</motor_quality_magnets>

    <motor_quality_construction>0</motor_quality_construction>

    <motor_quality_description>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN&quot; &quot;http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/strict.dtd&quot;&gt;

&lt;html&gt;&lt;head&gt;&lt;meta name=&quot;qrichtext&quot; content=&quot;1&quot; /&gt;&lt;style type=&quot;text/css&quot;&gt;

p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

&lt;/style&gt;&lt;/head&gt;&lt;body style=&quot; font-family:'Roboto'; font-size:12pt; font-weight:400; font-style:normal;&quot;&gt;

&lt;p style=&quot; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;&quot;&gt;Some comments about the motor quality. Images can be added as well.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</motor_quality_description>

</MCConfiguration>

 

 

 

 

 

Maxid
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Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14
Posts: 6

Good point! It worked flawlessly with a tiny drone motor so I hoped it was more settings related but will read into it