Problem with tiny inrunner motor

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Tue, 2020-11-24 14:30

Maxid

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Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14

Posts: 6

Problem with tiny inrunner motor

Hi all,

I recently bought a HD60 VESC from Trampa to use in a robotics project.
I need to drive a tiny inrunner motor (preferably in FOC mode as I want it to be as silent as possible) at speeds of ~40.000 rpm.
Motor detection seems to work via the wizard but as soon as I want to use it via the rpm or duty cycle commands I can not get it to turn reliably from standstill to full speed.
There is a band of rpms where it seems to work fine but above and below I only get weird back and forth vibrations.

I am new to motor settings and would really appreciate someone giving me hints on what parameters to tweak.

PS: The used motor is a novomotec EC1656

Fri, 2020-11-27 19:52

Maxid

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Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago

Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14

Posts: 6

Ok - well seems like I was wrong and the VESC is not capable of running such small motors reliably.
Bummer!

Thu, 2020-12-03 11:41

Maxid

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Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago

Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14

Posts: 6

I now tested the same motor on the VESC:

and the motor controller I wanted to replace:

The VESC seems very choppy - how can I change this behavior?

Thu, 2020-12-03 17:19

TechAUmNu

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Last seen: 3 months 3 days ago

Joined: 2017-09-22 01:27

Posts: 575

Could you post your motor configuration XML so I can take a look?

I successfully run small motors on my A50S which runs vesc firmware. I was using a TP2040. It does take a bit of tuning to make it work well. http://www.tppowereurope.com/Webwinkel-Product-242402677/TP2040.html

Mon, 2020-12-07 23:04

hexakopter

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Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago

Joined: 2017-05-24 12:13

Posts: 94

Can you show pictures of the internals of the VESC HD60? I guess it is still using shunt resistors with a very low resistance to measure currents up to 160A. For your application it probably makes sense to change the shunt resistors to measure these low currents < 1A precisely.

I run a very similar motor to yours (3A max current rating) with 0.01 ohm shunt resistors without a problem.

Wed, 2020-12-09 09:46

(Reply to #5) #6

Maxid

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Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago

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Posts: 6

Can't upload the file but here's the xml

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<pwm_mode>1</pwm_mode>

<comm_mode>0</comm_mode>

<motor_type>2</motor_type>

<sensor_mode>0</sensor_mode>

<l_current_max>1.5</l_current_max>

<l_current_min>-1.5</l_current_min>

<l_in_current_max>60</l_in_current_max>

<l_in_current_min>-60</l_in_current_min>

<l_abs_current_max>14</l_abs_current_max>

<l_min_erpm>-40000</l_min_erpm>

<l_max_erpm>40000</l_max_erpm>

<l_erpm_start>1</l_erpm_start>

<l_max_erpm_fbrake>300</l_max_erpm_fbrake>

<l_max_erpm_fbrake_cc>1500</l_max_erpm_fbrake_cc>

<l_min_vin>8</l_min_vin>

<l_max_vin>57</l_max_vin>

<l_battery_cut_start>10.2</l_battery_cut_start>

<l_battery_cut_end>9</l_battery_cut_end>

<l_slow_abs_current>1</l_slow_abs_current>

<l_temp_fet_start>85</l_temp_fet_start>

<l_temp_fet_end>100</l_temp_fet_end>

<l_temp_motor_start>85</l_temp_motor_start>

<l_temp_motor_end>100</l_temp_motor_end>

<l_temp_accel_dec>0.15</l_temp_accel_dec>

<l_min_duty>0.005</l_min_duty>

<l_max_duty>0.95</l_max_duty>

<l_watt_max>120</l_watt_max>

<l_watt_min>-120</l_watt_min>

<l_current_max_scale>1</l_current_max_scale>

<l_current_min_scale>1</l_current_min_scale>

<l_duty_start>1</l_duty_start>

<sl_min_erpm>150</sl_min_erpm>

<sl_min_erpm_cycle_int_limit>1100</sl_min_erpm_cycle_int_limit>

<sl_max_fullbreak_current_dir_change>10</sl_max_fullbreak_current_dir_change>

<sl_cycle_int_limit>62</sl_cycle_int_limit>

<sl_phase_advance_at_br>0.8</sl_phase_advance_at_br>

<sl_cycle_int_rpm_br>80000</sl_cycle_int_rpm_br>

<sl_bemf_coupling_k>600</sl_bemf_coupling_k>

<hall_table__0>-1</hall_table__0>

<hall_table__1>1</hall_table__1>

<hall_table__2>3</hall_table__2>

<hall_table__3>2</hall_table__3>

<hall_table__4>5</hall_table__4>

<hall_table__5>6</hall_table__5>

<hall_table__6>4</hall_table__6>

<hall_table__7>-1</hall_table__7>

<hall_sl_erpm>2000</hall_sl_erpm>

<foc_current_kp>0.0966</foc_current_kp>

<foc_current_ki>204.14</foc_current_ki>

<foc_f_sw>30000</foc_f_sw>

<foc_dt_us>0.12</foc_dt_us>

<foc_encoder_inverted>0</foc_encoder_inverted>

<foc_encoder_offset>180</foc_encoder_offset>

<foc_encoder_ratio>7</foc_encoder_ratio>

<foc_encoder_sin_gain>1</foc_encoder_sin_gain>

<foc_encoder_cos_gain>1</foc_encoder_cos_gain>

<foc_encoder_sin_offset>1.65</foc_encoder_sin_offset>

<foc_encoder_cos_offset>1.65</foc_encoder_cos_offset>

<foc_encoder_sincos_filter_constant>0.5</foc_encoder_sincos_filter_constant>

<foc_sensor_mode>0</foc_sensor_mode>

<foc_pll_kp>2000</foc_pll_kp>

<foc_pll_ki>30000</foc_pll_ki>

<foc_motor_l>9.659e-05</foc_motor_l>

<foc_motor_r>0.2041</foc_motor_r>

<foc_motor_flux_linkage>0.004961</foc_motor_flux_linkage>

<foc_observer_gain>4.063e+07</foc_observer_gain>

<foc_observer_gain_slow>0.05</foc_observer_gain_slow>

<foc_duty_dowmramp_kp>10</foc_duty_dowmramp_kp>

<foc_duty_dowmramp_ki>200</foc_duty_dowmramp_ki>

<foc_openloop_rpm>1400</foc_openloop_rpm>

<foc_sl_openloop_hyst>0.1</foc_sl_openloop_hyst>

<foc_sl_openloop_time>0.1</foc_sl_openloop_time>

<foc_sl_d_current_duty>0</foc_sl_d_current_duty>

<foc_sl_d_current_factor>0</foc_sl_d_current_factor>

<foc_hall_table__0>255</foc_hall_table__0>

<foc_hall_table__1>255</foc_hall_table__1>

<foc_hall_table__2>255</foc_hall_table__2>

<foc_hall_table__3>255</foc_hall_table__3>

<foc_hall_table__4>255</foc_hall_table__4>

<foc_hall_table__5>255</foc_hall_table__5>

<foc_hall_table__6>255</foc_hall_table__6>

<foc_hall_table__7>255</foc_hall_table__7>

<foc_sl_erpm>4000</foc_sl_erpm>

<foc_sample_v0_v7>1</foc_sample_v0_v7>

<foc_sample_high_current>0</foc_sample_high_current>

<foc_sat_comp>0</foc_sat_comp>

<foc_temp_comp>0</foc_temp_comp>

<foc_temp_comp_base_temp>25</foc_temp_comp_base_temp>

<foc_current_filter_const>0.1</foc_current_filter_const>

<foc_cc_decoupling>2</foc_cc_decoupling>

<foc_observer_type>0</foc_observer_type>

<foc_hfi_voltage_start>20</foc_hfi_voltage_start>

<foc_hfi_voltage_run>4</foc_hfi_voltage_run>

<foc_hfi_voltage_max>10</foc_hfi_voltage_max>

<foc_sl_erpm_hfi>2000</foc_sl_erpm_hfi>

<foc_hfi_start_samples>65</foc_hfi_start_samples>

<foc_hfi_obs_ovr_sec>0.001</foc_hfi_obs_ovr_sec>

<foc_hfi_samples>1</foc_hfi_samples>

<gpd_buffer_notify_left>200</gpd_buffer_notify_left>

<gpd_buffer_interpol>0</gpd_buffer_interpol>

<gpd_current_filter_const>0.1</gpd_current_filter_const>

<gpd_current_kp>0.03</gpd_current_kp>

<gpd_current_ki>50</gpd_current_ki>

<s_pid_kp>0.004</s_pid_kp>

<s_pid_ki>0.004</s_pid_ki>

<s_pid_kd>0.0001</s_pid_kd>

<s_pid_kd_filter>0.2</s_pid_kd_filter>

<s_pid_min_erpm>900</s_pid_min_erpm>

<s_pid_allow_braking>1</s_pid_allow_braking>

<p_pid_kp>0.03</p_pid_kp>

<p_pid_ki>0</p_pid_ki>

<p_pid_kd>0.0004</p_pid_kd>

<p_pid_kd_filter>0.2</p_pid_kd_filter>

<p_pid_ang_div>1</p_pid_ang_div>

<cc_startup_boost_duty>0.01</cc_startup_boost_duty>

<cc_min_current>0.05</cc_min_current>

<cc_gain>0.0046</cc_gain>

<cc_ramp_step_max>0.04</cc_ramp_step_max>

<m_fault_stop_time_ms>500</m_fault_stop_time_ms>

<m_duty_ramp_step>0.02</m_duty_ramp_step>

<m_current_backoff_gain>0.5</m_current_backoff_gain>

<m_encoder_counts>8192</m_encoder_counts>

<m_sensor_port_mode>0</m_sensor_port_mode>

<m_invert_direction>0</m_invert_direction>

<m_drv8301_oc_mode>0</m_drv8301_oc_mode>

<m_drv8301_oc_adj>10</m_drv8301_oc_adj>

<m_bldc_f_sw_min>3000</m_bldc_f_sw_min>

<m_bldc_f_sw_max>35000</m_bldc_f_sw_max>

<m_dc_f_sw>25000</m_dc_f_sw>

<m_ntc_motor_beta>3380</m_ntc_motor_beta>

<m_out_aux_mode>0</m_out_aux_mode>

<m_motor_temp_sens_type>0</m_motor_temp_sens_type>

<m_ptc_motor_coeff>0.61</m_ptc_motor_coeff>

<si_motor_poles>2</si_motor_poles>

<si_gear_ratio>1</si_gear_ratio>

<si_wheel_diameter>0.02</si_wheel_diameter>

<si_battery_type>0</si_battery_type>

<si_battery_cells>3</si_battery_cells>

<si_battery_ah>6</si_battery_ah>

<motor_brand>Unnamed</motor_brand>

<motor_model>Not Specified</motor_model>

<motor_weight>0</motor_weight>

<motor_poles>14</motor_poles>

<motor_sensor_type>0</motor_sensor_type>

<motor_description><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/strict.dtd">

p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

</style></head><body style=" font-family:'Roboto'; font-size:12pt; font-weight:400; font-style:normal;">

<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;">A motor description can be edited here.</p></body></html></motor_description>

<motor_loss_torque>0.03</motor_loss_torque>

<motor_quality_bearings>0</motor_quality_bearings>

<motor_quality_magnets>0</motor_quality_magnets>

<motor_quality_construction>0</motor_quality_construction>

<motor_quality_description><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/strict.dtd">

p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

</style></head><body style=" font-family:'Roboto'; font-size:12pt; font-weight:400; font-style:normal;">

<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px;">Some comments about the motor quality. Images can be added as well.</p></body></html></motor_quality_description>

</MCConfiguration>

Wed, 2020-12-09 09:51

(Reply to #6) #7

Maxid

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Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago

Joined: 2020-11-24 14:14

Posts: 6

Good point! It worked flawlessly with a tiny drone motor so I hoped it was more settings related but will read into it

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Problem with tiny inrunner motor