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VESC 75/300 Configuration of 7kg Innerrunner Surron

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electricfox
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VESC 75/300 Configuration of 7kg Innerrunner Surron

Hi,

I am trying to get my Surron Bike to be more powerfull. It has a 7,4kg Innerrunner with Hallsensors.

I dont have that much info about the motor for now.

In the beginning it was cogging while driving after detection. Then after changing Motor flux linkage from 15.30mWb to 13mWb and switching frequency from 20khz to 60kHz it works fine now.

While riding maximum Power in the App is showing me about 8,5KW and 300amps, which is nice, but I want more. The motor is capable to do more than that. Motor and Controller dont get hot. I am using a 14S Lipo which can deliver the maximum 300amps.

Should I play with values like motor resistance and Inductance or what can i do to improve startup Power and Power itself?

What is the maximum Power the Vesc is capable of in general?

I added some pics of my cooling fan and the bike

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benjamin
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You could try using the no_hw_limits firmware (which is shown if you check the show non-default firmwares box) and increase the current limit to around 350A, but keep in mind that this might destroy the VESC if you are unlucky. I don't have any setup where I could test more than 300A, but I have heard that others run at 350A without problems. Also keep in mind that the no_hw_limits firmware does not check the boundires of any settings, so you have to be extra careful. Try it at your own risk, but let us know how it went :-)

electricfox
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I did lots of test runs today. With the phone on the handle bar its super fast to change and check settings, just great! 

Changing directly to 350A in the no_hw_limits firmware, made abs_overcurrent faults. Going untill 320A was without problems without changing any other parameter. Then decreasing Flux Linkage slightly made 345A possible, but Startup Power from standstill was getting little worse. But all in all it made the bike more powerfull :) Still the Vescs did not get hot after lots of acceleration rides.

Are there any other values I can play with? Thank you Benjamin!

 

 

benjamin
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You could try doubling kp and/or ki for the current controller. That will make it react much faster if the current is about to overshoot. As you are running on so high f_sw the controller should handle higher gain quite well. Halving or doubling the observer gain can also help.

electricfox
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I did what you said. Now the bike is accelerating much better. Thanks!

The offical limits on trampa website say 450A is possible. Because the high 350A phase is just for a short time when I accelerate with the bike, can I go closer to 400A or what makes it be limited? I have no cooling problems.

I used my ampmeter clamp and measured DC 200A from battery max and in ac mode 245A on one phase to motor. I know that this is not the right way to measure it, but its a value :D

I tried to use different csv files (MS/MACOS/etc), but non of them was recognized by vesc tool and vesc tool mobile to log data. Any suggestion what that file should be like?

district9prawn
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Awesome to see a 75/300 vesc hooked up to a Sur Ron. I notice you have switching frequency at 60 khz. With 30uh motor inductance such a high frequency is probably not necessary. You can probably set the frequency back to 30khz then set sample in v0 v7 to true. The controller should run a bit cooler this way. 

electricfox
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Going to 30kHz caused problems, thats why I had to stay at 60kHZ. Changing Switching frequency always made Overcurrent Faults.

 

I did some more testing last days. Looks like 350A is most possible for Motor-Vesc-Combination without getting over current faults.

I found the reason why I could not use real time data storage on my phone in Mobile Vesc App. In Settings->App->Vesc you have to allow using storage. The App will create an csv file, so you dont have to put one there. The weird thing is that it did not store data in the very first file it created. Trying it once again worked fine. Next plan is to implement a throttle for braking/charging battery. 

 

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frank
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Nice Bike! Last week we pushed 500A through a 75/300 without running into heat issues. 14S, motorbike. 

electricfox
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Thanks Frank, well I am at 365 Phaseamps and 11KW with the motor. More will cause overcurrent faults. I tried lots of settings, but it seems the Vesc cant handle more with the motor or I missed some settings. I know that people took more power out of the motor without any big issues, but with other controllers. What bike and motor are you talking about? 

district9prawn
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What value have you set for absolute maximum current? It sounds like you have the motor dialled in so you could probably enable the high current sample mode and set the absolute maximum above 500A. 

On my ebike I was I was getting faults around 250A motor current in sensorless. When I used an encoder for the lower third or so of the rpm range I was able to run over 300A phase current without faults and without needing to mess around with stator saturation compensation and other parameters. What erpm can your motor do on halls before it needs to switch over to sensorless to track accurately?

 

electricfox
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Today I tried out high current sampling mode, like you suggested. The absolut maximum current is set to 615A at the moment, before it was 530A. When changing the phaseamps to a higher value than 375A (10A more than before) I am having absolut overcurrent faults. Those faults only occur when I dragrace from 0kmh after about 10 meters. So its a low speed "problem". The motor has hall sensors. I tried out to go to lowest sensorless erpm I could without having issues, testing by try-and-error. The value is 1600 now, before it was 3000. Is it better to have the value as high or as low as possible? Also the question of openloop erpm value in the sensorless Tab, higher or lower value is better? 

district9prawn
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Since you might be running into saturation problems you want sensorless erpm high to use the halls as long as possible before transitioning to sensorless. Openloop erpm is for starting the motor from a stop in sensorless. Even though you have halls its still worth trying to configure sensorless start. Could make your life easier if you have hall problems while riding. 

electricfox
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After changing to 16S, doing lots of experiments, upgrading to FW 5.0 I reached 15,4KW peak at 440 Phaseamps.

Heres an unspectacular video of the bike and some pictures of it.

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david
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I've been running 375A peak in my DIY electric bike for a year or so and it seems to love that, but also only at 60khz.  Had all sorts of OVC faults at lower switching frequencies.  With the latest firmware and autotuning changes i'll start testing at higher current levels.  May the FET gods be with us!

aallsbury
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Would anyone be willing to share a working wiring diagram with me for swapping in the 75/300 VESC in place of a stock Sur Ron X controller. Obviously the battery and motor phase connections are pretty simple, but I am a bit confused on how to get everything else wired in (ie: hall sensors, throttle, fall sensors, ignition, hi/low, etc). Thanks a ton!

Armond Ohan
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I have been trying to find this too. This would make a great candidate over ASI & Sintech. Plus readily available.